MacBook Pro is a Solid Machine
There's a post on Digg today that links to a list of MacBook Pro defects. That post and the page it points to gives the impression that the MacBook Pro is some sort of extremely fragile machine that just barely holds together, which is absolute insanity.The only thing I've encountered as a real, tangible issue is the high-pitched whine, which is unfortunate but easily worked around. It also doesn't seem to be specific to the MacBook Pro, and is perhaps a Core Duo issue.
The MacBook Pro is a very fast machine with a great screen, great features and an elegant design. This is from someone who actually owns one.
The page of defects appears to list every single problem that anyone has ever had with the machine, regardless of whether we know it to be a build flaw or something that happened after purchase.
Furthermore, a number of the issues are diagnosed by people who may or may not know what they're talking about. I haven't had kernel panics, blown speakers, swollen batteries, melting adaptors, electric shock, or anything of that nature. I'm not sure how many of the digg commentors actually own a MacBook Pro but I suspect it's very few.
People, common sense. This is a solid machine. If they were actually that bad, Apple would be overwhelmed with returns and would almost certainly pull them from the shelves.
MacBook Pro is a Solid Machine
Posted Jun 26, 2006 — 45 comments below
Posted Jun 26, 2006 — 45 comments below
coelomic — Jun 26, 06 1382
Jesper — Jun 26, 06 1383
However, as any reasonable person would, I agree with you that it's not wise to sum them all up in one document, including minor uncollaborated issues, and say "here, if you buy a MacBook Pro, this will all happen to your machine, and oh, your toe will fall off and any fetus within 50 feet of the thing will suffer immediate miscarriage". (Due to a poor Internet connection, I don't know if the article *does* read like that or not - hopefully not - but you get the point.)
Jesper — Jun 26, 06 1384
Minus: the functioning part of the machine.
Plus: the functioning part*s* of the machine
Damn Freud. :)
Scott Stevenson — Jun 26, 06 1385
This is pretty vague so I don't know how to respond succinctly. My main beef here is the way the internet makes certain issues seem. A handful of people have an issue and blog about, the whole internet links to those blogs and then suddenly it looks like there's an epidemic. Please.
There are minor bugs that are widespread, and major issues that are very rare, but I personally can't identify any one issue present in the current machines that is both major and widespread. That's just my perception, and I could be wrong.
The "excessive heat" issue has puzzled me for some time because my PowerBook G4 seems to get just as hot. There are always tradeoffs to make between performance, noise and heat. You may not agree with the decisions but to call them flaws is a big leap. The X1600 clocking comment is particuarly odd to me in the context of the same document that complains about heat.
Due to a poor Internet connection, I don't know if the article *does* read like that
To me, it does, which is what caused me to post this.
Casey Fleser — Jun 26, 06 1386
Still you're right, I solved the shift key problem myself with a bit of scotch tape under the key, but apart from that, it's been a decent machine.
Preston — Jun 26, 06 1387
Jesper — Jun 26, 06 1388
I'm talking about things like "mooing" (where the fan turns on to a high RPM very fast and powers off very fast) and the heat of the machine. Your comment about the PowerBook parallel is correct. However, that doesn't change the amount of thermal grease that's *actually* applied to these things, or reported by instructions in the repair manual.
At the end of the day, I suspect that if you were to look into any support department of any major computer maker, you'd run afoul of many similar issues with most computers. I think the MacBook Pro is fairly pedestrian in its error rate for a first-generation product.
The longwinded point: I'm uneasy with people *seemingly* blowing most problems off as delusions or within the margin, and I think your post very easily could be fit into the "Mac user defends Apple, disregards and discredits user error reports" category, and once people affix that label to you, you know how much they'll believe anything you write. I'm not asking you to stop writing what you write, how you write it - it's refreshing and very often very right, and this case is no exception.
Nathan — Jun 26, 06 1389
- it gets very hot
- sound is distorted on loudest setting
- screen flickrs when on darkest setting
- high pitched whine (have noticed it about 2 times so far)
Despite these issues I'm quite happy with it.
Scott Stevenson — Jun 26, 06 1394
I hear the mooing but I just think it's an incredibly minor issue that would go unmentioned if it wasn't an Apple device.
However, that doesn't change the amount of thermal grease that's *actually* applied to these things
I'm not really sold on the thermal grease thing, particularly after reading JDD's post on the subject.
At the end of the day, I suspect that if you were to look into any support department of any major computer maker, you'd run afoul of many similar issues with most computers. I think the MacBook Pro is fairly pedestrian in its error rate for a first-generation product
Yes, I agree.
once people affix that label to you, you know how much they'll believe anything you write
I'm completely over worrying about what people think about me. :) I'll clear things up if necessary but I won't lose sleep over it.
jcburns — Jun 26, 06 1395
Throw in some table-based layout while you're at it (I hear it's coming back.)
NickS — Jun 26, 06 1396
I don't discount those having issues with their machines. It clearly happens. But as you mention (and as I wrote about recently at TheAppleBlog) - it's tough to gauge the severity. 50-ish discolorations on MacBooks doesn't qualify as an epidemic problem....
I just got myself a MacBook and I love it. Guess we'll see if the clouds move in and every conceivable issue befalls me. I'm not holding my breath.
John Murphy — Jun 26, 06 1397
the 15 runs a bit warm, but its comparable to any other intell laptop. My alienware and dell both run hotter. The only downside to the intel mac is the lack of native adobe and macromedia apps. Go take a look at the exploding dell and tell me that the macbook still has problems! i had a 17' powerbook g4 that i sold to get this, it ran hot under heavy use as well.
Chris — Jun 26, 06 1398
So you're saying it's the CPU that makes the high pitched whine?! Errr... In general I agree with your post, but statements like this don't help your credibility any.
Philber — Jun 26, 06 1399
xxxMDKxxx — Jun 26, 06 1400
Brian Parry — Jun 26, 06 1401
Today I have a MacBook (non-Pro) with 2G of memory running OS X, WinXP, and Linux. It is a blast to flip between them with virtual screens (I am using Parallel's Mac Desktop instead of Boot Camp). The unit can get hot, but that is the only issue I have. The machine is so quiet I sometimes wonder if it has a hard drive at all. I never hear the thing.
While I happy you are happy with your MacBook Pro, I honestly don't see the "Pro" advantage. I think Apple made a mistake here - in the low end favor. If I did a lot of graphic intensive work I might have a different opinion.
Christopher — Jun 26, 06 1402
Granted, most of the issues pertain to the 15.4" model(s)...the 17" has been a solid machine for both Mac Operating Systems and Windows.
It's not a perfect product, by no means...but no complaints here.
Mike — Jun 26, 06 1403
Since the MacBook Pros were released, we've seen exactly *one* come back with a problem; a battery that would not charge. We've sold hundreds (literally), and have had zero complaints about whine, bad screens or any such thing. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but I'm saying that either Apple is shipping pristine units to Canada (because we're so nice up here), or the reports of MacBook problems are *greatly* exaggerated.
Do they get hot? Yes. So does my G4 Powerbook, although the MacBook Pro does seem a tad warmer. Speaking of other models, let's talk about MacBooks ... they've been flying off the shelves here and we've had none returned due to stains, "mooing", or heat.
Yes, hardware can be flakey, and yes the machines run hotter than before. But as Scott has pointed out and I have experienced, they are overall very solid machines.
tux — Jun 26, 06 1404
The week 20+ have no problem with the sound at all - thats proof that there was something wrong before, don't you think? O_o
But all in all, I agree this machine is very good. I finally got the right one and I am happy with it. I would still advise people to wait but I do not regret getting it :)
mullingitover — Jun 26, 06 1405
I also had random shutdowns happening when running battery power, with the battery professing to have 1:50 left. Inspection of my battery revealed it to be bulging and misshapen. It was promptly replaced.
I think this was largely due to the fact that this is a bleeding-edge technology for Apple and they weren't able to get a product of consistent quality out the door in time. It's disappointing for me, but I understand it's not everyone's experience. In hindsight, I should've waited until a few months after the release, and I advise others to do the same.
Andrew — Jun 26, 06 1406
Ben — Jun 26, 06 1407
The Dell laptop gets extremely hot, very hot, so very very hot.
The screen has a silly reflective coating over it (a reflective coating so reflective it makes the macbook look like a matte finish) and to the point where the office lights make it hard to see the screen from some angles.
Why have I pointed out some faults I've encounted with a Dell laptop, seeing as they have no relation with the Apple Macbook Pro? Perhaps I will let you think about that one.
These two (2) entirely different companies with different designs, different circuit designs, differing hardware, and a totally different Operating System. Yet they are plagued with problems, some the same and some problems different.
But yet I don't see the animosity for the Dell Inspiron 6400 as the Macbook Pro. Why?
I know there are many reasons why people are up in arms re: faults with Apple goods (high expectations, perhaps rejection from Apple support, perhaps hatred?), but why the directed assult on Apple goods? I mean I've bought a my fair share of goods (and services) and many times been bitterly disappointed but you see me making whole websites against the brand/product? Nope.
On a personal note, I think a lot of people need to grow up and this includes those anti-apple people out there (yes, they exist *sigh*) who may be propagating this propaganda against Apple products/services. And those Apple-loving people who are bitching about Apple, take your complaints to them and not behind their back.
Ben — Jun 26, 06 1408
Clearing up a point: I mean i've bought goods that are not Apple and have been dissapointed.
I am not a Macbook Pro owner, but a very happy switcher iMac G4.
Silverphish — Jun 26, 06 1410
skrinak — Jun 26, 06 1411
What's happened here, and for some reason isn't mentioned at all, is that macbooks and apple in general is more popular than ever. The heat of the macbook is no different than my g4, but how many pc users had a powerbook a year ago? Very few of course. Now it's almost the default developer's machine.
Here's my beef with the new machine (also not mentioned). You can't run windows media files or stream windows media on it. This means at least 50% of the video I'm emailed or follow links to do not play.
That's a huge problem and almost no one talks about it.
I rarely watch tv and have gotten used to a routine of catching the daily show and other favorites online. I can't view this on my new macbook pro.
This is obviously a format war but how in the world could apple win this one? It's a pure loss for every macbook owner.
I do have parallels and resort to viewing the media there, but it's not integrated with my email or my usual browsing in firefox. This single problem has gotten me eyeing Kevin Rose's Lenovo.
adhocboy — Jun 26, 06 1412
I've had problem machines before, but this is not one of them. I was cautious in replacing my many year old PB, but this is a solid replacement with an impossibly bright/clear display.
Brian — Jun 26, 06 1413
And it's not like other manufacturers don't have problems with their own machines. I just think Apple gets a bad rap for whatever reason. Have a problem like a battery ballooning or a computer making strange noises with Dell or HP, and I doubt they would do too much about it.
Just my two cents.
jared — Jun 26, 06 1414
also, the cpu whine does not happen if you boot into windows with boot camp. so personally, i'm more inclined to believe it is not a problem with the cpu.
JC Derr — Jun 26, 06 1415
At Mac Geekery, we're currently writing an in depth exposé on claims that the thermal paste is being over-applied is causing the machines to run warmer. While we're not done taking data from all of the machines involved, so far it's looking like this issue is a complete and utter bust.
On the one completed machine, we've found no difference between the factory amount of the factory paste, Apple's technician documented amounts with the Apple provided paste (acquired from a local AASP), sane amounts of Apple's provided paste, or sane amounts of Artic Silver. In fact, we've found that the torqued washers Apple positioned around the board ensure that a uniform, razor thin layer remains diretly on the chip, regardless of amount applied.
The first machine tested showed a net wash, no change. On the second machine we're testing, about halfway through, and there may be a 2 degree difference at the current rate. We're acquiring a 13" MacBook this week to test, as well.
Ben — Jun 26, 06 1416
Mike Caputo — Jun 26, 06 1417
I'm extatic with my MBP 2.0 15"
Jeremy — Jun 26, 06 1418
Here's my beef with the new machine (also not mentioned). You can't run windows media files or stream windows media on it. This means at least 50% of the video I'm emailed or follow links to do not play.
it is true that quicktime cannot play wmv or divx files, but luckily a couple of plugins solve those issues. www.divx.com www.flip4mac.com
i too own a 15.4 in MBP, and after updating the firmware on it, starting having the problem where the machine would just shut off randomly while running on battery, then eventually the battery started to balloon. i called applecare, and they checked the inventory of the local apple store and put a battery on hold for me. i drove over there and picked it up - no questions asked. i couldn't have been in the apple store for more then 5 minutes. if i wanted, they would have shipped me a new battery, but it was getting late on saturday and i'd have to wait until monday to get it. aside from that, i haven't had any problems. the new battery has been working like a charm.
i use the machine in bed at night on my chest reading the web and getting some work in before going to bed. although the machine does get very hot, its never gotten to the point where i was concerned with getting burnt, and i really can't say it gets any hotter then any comparably spec'd machine, although the metal case seems to eminate heat more then a regular old plastic laptop.
id highly recommend this machine to anyone, its been amazing, extremely fast, and very quiet..
Art — Jun 26, 06 1419
Any other brand would have been bashed and held accountable by the press and the consumers. The cult like following of the multitudes of Mac owners and unsuspecting new buyers are being duped by Apple.
Anjan — Jun 26, 06 1420
My MacBook Pro has had the whining problem but that went away after the firmware update. The heat issue didn't bother me since I'm used to heat from PowerBook G4, Dell Latitude, IBM ThinkPad, and Sony Vaio. However, I could notice that it was a little hotter than the older PowerBooks. After the firmware update, it runs cooler and is certainly not a problem anymore.
In a way its a compliment that even isolated problems in Apple products get so much attention - shows how consumers except Apple products to be flawless. From another perspective its also annoying that some others would take these correctible glitches to hyperbole how these products are supposedly crashing and burning.
AramisBear — Jun 26, 06 1421
The only thing that I can tell you is that after owning this machine I will never go back to Windows again. After using something this polished, well integrated, functional and beautiful (with a unix base I might add) I just couldn't go back.
The best purchase that I've ever made. Oddly, I was really worried about application porting before I made the move, but I've got everything that I need.
Wolf — Jun 26, 06 1422
However, since they are both "it" products, people will enjoy reading how they have failed.
Some failings are probably due to user tinkering with the system and then trying to blame MS/Apple.
This is the current "it" product and is paying for it. It is always hip to bash the new hot item.
ssp — Jun 27, 06 1423
As Apple (and other companies) are in denial about weaknesses of their designs or manufacturing, they won't list the common or even rare problems with the machines. Instead they'll declare those problems to be 'within spec' later on. So someone has to document how far reaching their mysterious 'spec' is. This helps other people to make a more informed decision when buying the machine and to gauge the risk of running into problems which normal people wouldn't consider to be expected behaviour of an expensive high tech product.
If a friend asked you about how well your computer works and is built and plans to get one himself, wouldn't you make sure to list all the problems you ran into to make sure your friend doesn't run into the trouble of having to return the machine or run through the hassle known as 'customer service'? Particularly with 'customer service' being unwilling to help, in denial or incompetent with many of the problems? I would for sure (particularly for Apple products as I've been burned badly by their customer service in the past and I don't want to recommend anything like that to friends).
Abhi Beckert — Jun 28, 06 1424
This quote from a FatBits post should convince you that CPU's can make noise, or trigger noise to be made in other components:
michel — Jun 28, 06 1425
people are just insane and like to bitch.
and yeah, chipset and all electronic devices _can_ do sounds. of course it's not the goal with a cpu and maybe it's not the case in the macbook pro, but yes it's possible.
I own a macbook pro 17. I have none of these worries, of course it's a 2006 computer! so it heats a lot and can make some noise and it's not star trek.
but no burn, no defects, no whining sound. just a good computer.
Abhi Beckert — Jun 30, 06 1429
http://www.macgeekery.com/hacks/hardware/the_definitive_macbook_pro_thermal_roundup
The conclusion is the same result as James Duncan Davidson found, except Mac Geekery's test is more thorough/reliable. Re-application makes a tiny difference, but too much thermal paste isn't the reason MacBook Pro's being so hot. It's a fast cpu running in a confined space, it *will* get hot.
Michael Strck — Jul 02, 06 1431
Scott Stevenson — Jul 02, 06 1432
That's my feeling as well. I don't find my MacBook Pro particularly hotter than my PowerBook G4.
Juggernaut — Jul 03, 06 1433
andrew — Jul 28, 06 1473
as for all of your macbook pro horror stories. here's one for ye all!
I got my macbook pro 17" two weeks ago.
two days ago, it DIED. the logic board went kaput and I rather suddenly had a shiny paper weight on my hands. I brought it into my local Apple retailer though, and inside of 3 hours they had me a new laptop with my ram upgrade and a complete migration of my files (except my windows files GRR)
anyway, i'm back up and running no worse for wear.
i like the machine personally, but even if I didn't I'd probably have to justify the purchase to myself somehow.
Matt — Dec 10, 06 2628
Buy one - if you have issue, get it fixed, and if you don't, then no problem hey?!. Life is too short to get paranoid... gee whizz!!! *rolls eyes*